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Answers to Creationist Attacks on Carbon-14 Dating

Update: After reading our original article on the Shroud of Turin and its carbon dating, a USA college student writing a thesis on the subject asked us a series of The Carbon 14 Myth - Science Against Evolution Official The Carbon 14 Myth. We know that carbon 14 dating is totally irrelevant to the theory of evolution. How far can you go back in time, and assume an accurate sample with carbon dating? It seems limited, how can an observer know the state of the decay of a certain molecular structure even , calendar years ago? Could there be other influences that would affect the rate of decay of carbon 14?. THE MOTHER OF ALL HOOKUPS. As acronyms go De Heer took another look at the flat carbon sheet—called grapheneand calculated that instead of rolling.- '. I BEYOND More current can go through it, it doesn't heat up as much, and you can go down to nanometers or smal|er—and it still works." Work continues in.

Welcome to the Ars OpenForum. Posting Guidelines Contact Moderators. Carbon dating, rate of decay, how far can we go?

How Far Can Carbon Hookup Go

Fri Apr 25, 5: How far can you go back in time, and assume an accurate sample with carbon dating? It seems limited, how can an observer know the state of the decay of a certain molecular structure evencalendar years ago? Could there be other influences that would affect the rate of decay of carbon 14?

The enrichment of bone 13 C also implies that excreted material is depleted in 13 C relative to the diet. As Hat Monster already pointed out, if these things were only slightly different from what they are now, the universe would be a vastly different place. The above calculations make several assumptions, such as that the level of 14 C in the atmosphere has remained constant over time. K decay also forms plenty of beta radiation. To date older objects, you need to use different radioisotopes.

If it has generally been established as a constant, at what point does the "constant" break down? The constant, that is the Strong Nuclear Force, is absolute.

It'd have to be, it's what controls radioactivity and all other nuclear reactions. If we surmise that the Strong Nuclear Force can change, then we have to explain why the Sun is still there. A bit in one way, the rate of fusion goes through the roof and the Sun blows itself apart. A bit in the other, the rate of fusion drops and the Sun collapses. Where "A bit" is How Far Can Carbon Hookup Go few parts in a trillion or less, most likely very much less.

Carbon has a half-life of 5, years so decays fairly quickly to unusable proportions. We also need to calibrate how much carbon it had to begin with.

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To do that we need records of how much was being made from nitrogen. To do that we need samples of atmospheric gas, from ice cores or solar activity from tree rings, etc. If we're a bit depleted in nitrogen, then we know it's become carbon We can get reasonable accuracy to 50, years, better accuracy more recently. This calibration is what limits the accuracy because we know that with a given amount of carbon, it absolutely will decay at a very tightly controlled rate.

This has been described as a "second radiocarbon revolution", and with regard to British prehistory, archaeologist Richard Atkinson has characterized the impact of radiocarbon dating as "radical Posting Guidelines Contact Moderators. Archived from the original PDF on 10 August It's like a little kid turning their nose up their parent cause they think they know better.

Fri Apr 25, 7: Fri Apr 25, Originally posted by spoof: Unfortunately, I was not able to attend that event, due to prior schedule conflicts.

Originally posted by Hat Monster: Originally posted by Chuckles: Science cannot tell time. It can set a frame, or a parameter for the click at this page of one event or another, but it has only the most recent reference for the age of any matter whatsoever.

We have only arbitrary concepts of the age of matter as we know it. Sat Apr 26, 5: Ars Legatus Legionis et Subscriptor. Sat Apr 26, 9: Originally posted by UserJoe: Sat Apr 26, 2: That's right, it's the weak force that governs beta decay.

My error, but doesn't detract from the post's content. Now, on to the next question, who held the stop watch at the Big Bang?

Sat Apr 26, 4: Sat Apr 26, 6: The technique for carbon dating is being refined to the How Far Can Carbon Hookup Go it is believed that reasonable accuracy may be achieved back toyears ago. Carbon dating works, btw, by comparing the ratio of C 14 to C The further back you go, the harder it gets to discern that difference accurately. Now, I'm interested to know what other radio-isotopes we can use to date old stuff.

Like old rocks, for instance. Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius et Subscriptor.

How Far Can Carbon Dating Go Back

Isotopic systems that have been exploited for radiometric dating have half-lives ranging only about 10 years e. Sun Apr 27, Sun Apr 27, 5: I'm not pushing some creationist angle here, they just like to pick nice "round" numbers. No, I'll take scientific observations any day of the week, it's just that so much of science must, as a How Far Can Carbon Hookup Go, base their observations on the painstaking recording of observable physical data.

When this web page observer is present, can we comfortably assume anything about the physical state of the universe at a time when no recorded physical data is available?

To merely observe the physics of atomic structures in the "here and now" and then state that "it's always been like this", seems somewhat presumptive. Sun Apr 27, 8: Originally posted by zeotherm: Sun Apr 27, 9: Originally posted by BuckG: I find ranty non-scientific curt dismissals of theories with this sort of attitude half baked and highly aggravating. It's like a little kid turning their nose up their parent cause they think they know better.

Therefore, I am actually considering more than you are, which makes me better than you mere "scientists".

I don't care if I have no idea how you could be wrong, I am smarter merely by suggesting you are mistaken. Can the Weak Force within an atom be effected? Are half-life constants truely constant? Sun Apr 27, 1: If the basic constants of the universe weren't, in fact, constant, we'd observe effects out there in deep space or maybe not so deep space that would be inexplicable.

Mon Apr 28, 7: Mon Apr 28, 1: Originally posted by ZeroZanzibar: Yet, the astrophysicists who examine all of this stuff tell us the same laws of physics applies everywhere and therefore every when they look. The weak force has not changed during the history of the solar system. Mon Apr 28, 2: If they were, we wouldn't have had photons. We do have photons, hence they were not.

Mon Apr 28, 3: Originally posted by bantha: Tue Apr 29, 5: What if the change itself also propagates at the speed of light? The change could be trailing or preceding our ability to detect it in every case, due to the very same reason we are able to "look into the past" in the first place. Tue Apr 29, 9: I suppose this is only tangentially related, but it's a question I've How Far Can Carbon Hookup Go thinking about for a while now, and I don't think it's worth its own thread.

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Tue Apr 29, I think the place to look for evidence for that the cosmic background radiation is differentiated in some way. But, while space is largely empty, not all of it is. There's patches where it isn't so empty, just by sheer chance and volume of the universe. I think you also need to play Einstein continue reading create some equations. While they are hard to detect precisely because they are so energetic, cosmic rays that come through the sun versus from outside the solar system that is, a place where no planets are, especially Jupiter should show, on whatever equations you posit, some sort of difference.

How Far Can Carbon Hookup Go

Or, if that creates problems due to the known issues around photons and gravity, some other near-solar incident angle that's far enough away to create the problem in an easily measured way. Versus, of course, nowhere near the sun. Maybe X Rays or other wavelengths would work as well. Gravitational lenses may be useful here although in this case, it would be measuring only "half" of the lensing versus something a bit "farther to the left".

I suspect we'd know about it if that sort of thing was true. Astronomers do look in pretty much every direction and pretty much every wavelength we can even occasionally detect. Unless everyone was asleep possible, I suppose -- we don't always look for what we don't expectthen there'd already be people talking about the problem, perhaps trying to attribute it to gravity which is an issue, even for photons or something of the sort.

Tue Apr 29, 1: Originally posted by Control Group: Tue Apr 29, 3: Tue Apr 29, 4: Wed Apr 30, They've just announced a big improvement in the precision of argon-argon dating.